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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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When I'm on the lawnmower or doing other stuff in the yard my mind frequently wanders and it should come as no surprise that often times it's skiing thoughts, recollections and other ski related stuff that it wanders to. So yesterday I recall certain ideas and thoughts that people have relating to how to ski... lets say 28mph 15 off versus say 34mph 28 off. Lets say you're working on trying to run 28mph 15 off, but you don't know what's required technique wise to get through it. Johnny Swerver comes on here and says this is what makes 34 mph 28 off easy for me....this is how I create space....this is how I hold my direction after the wake, blah, blah, blah. There are people on this site that will think/ say that "Johnny Swerver is skiing at 39off, the things he's doing won't work for me here!" The truth is (as I see it anyway) that everything I figure out, or remember, I try to apply at the longer lines. Sometimes I'll try to "tip toe" through 22 because I want to ski "safe" ...often times when I do, I'll ski it like sh_t and get in trouble or even miss it. When I ski it somewhat aggressively, I usually run a better line and have way more margin for error. unrelated to above: Yesterday after I skied, one of the guys at the lake is getting ready to ski, I ask if he minds if I ride because I feel like I can help him when he lets me. He says "okay, but I've already got stuff I'm working on!". I understand this because I've always got stuff I'm working on. So he does his thing with a couple of freeski warmups and then starts running the course with an odd routine I won't even get into....and he's struggling at 36mph 22off and 34mph 22off and various other speeds 22 off. I'm about to come unglued because I'm sure I have something that will help him but I have to wait until he has no hope left of running a clean pass. He's essentially done with his set, he's tired from skiing "his way", the water and air have robbed him of any freshness he may have had. I see an opportunity to get him to try what I want him to do, elbows tight from at least spray line to spray line. He does his first attempt and comes into 1 early, wide and with the tightest line he's ever had in his life...gets over to 2 and gums it all up. We drop and discuss and he says he was just surprised where it put him and he didn't know what to do. Next attempt he goes and runs the best pass he's ever run in his life. It's the most dramatic difference I've ever seen in someones skiing in a set. That's it for this set...we'll see how he does next time. I've got a few skiers working on this... 2 have caught on pretty well and one is struggling with it (mainly because he thinks he's doing it, and he's just not grasping it yet.) One of the guys I ski with (very accomplished) says we tend to coach what we're working on (which I believe to be true) But I try to focus on what gives me the best chance to be successful.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2007 Posts: 321 Location: Telluride
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Great thoughts. Now, the visual of the lawnmower has me remembering the Mastercraft ads from a few years ago, where everyone is skiing from lawnmowers, shopping carts, doors, etc. So I'm picturing you, holding the tractor wheel, with elbows locked to your sides, and getting great width, and moving outside-in at the corners.  My new mantra is "elbows tight." When this is happening it really does take care of a lot of the other things.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/3/2007 Posts: 82
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This is also one of the key things I've ben working on this summer. KEEP THE ARMS IN! I actually was doing it better out of my off-side turn than my on-side.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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Another one of those lawnmower moments....how effective is where you look? depends... when I'm wide and early it really cleans up the turn, slows me down (movement wise) but keeps me early and easy. When I'm not wide and early it's not nearly as effective but still helps me to slow my movements some. So to me...arms/elbows tight spray line to spray line (and beyond) is the best thing I'm doing right now.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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So I've been skiing with my evolving "method" for about a month now. In the past couple of years I've been trying a bunch of different things, a lot are my interpretations of what people are saying or doing. West Coast, East Coast, Old School, New School, Foreign School, Boarding School, you name it, I'll try it (If I'm stuck). I've often watched Andy Mapple and felt like "it works for him, but it sure looks like he's on the edge all the time". Now you see Will Asher skiing a very similar style, very, very aggressive and having a bunch of success. I've talked to Andy before and quizzed him about skiing. His thoughts don't get into the complications of twisting and softening the legs and stepping ahead and stepping behind. His philosophy is fairly simple.....make space. Of course you can't make space without being balanced and in a strong position. Does this mean I'm trying to not be light? I'm not sure...I'm still trying to be light getting into position to handle the load.....but come load time, I'm getting me some! I think the light part comes from being in a strong position after leaving the wakes and riding the speed through the turn. It has a certain light feel to it when it's done right. While my buoy count hasn't changed very much yet, I feel a whole lot more confident in the direction my skiing is headed. A lot of what I'm trying to do now has some old school feel/thoughts to it. I'm not really trying to do much West Coast, but some of the results have a West Coast byproduct.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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I've rejoined AWSA for the first time in several years....I'll be skiing my first tournament since 2006 this weekend. One of my ski partners said my first round will feel like going over the jump for the first time....I found that very amusing. I've got a busy weekend coming up, Judges & drivers clinic to get reinstated, work on course to get it ready (it's on another lake and has been abused by wakeboarders and unseasoned drivers) drive and judge, ski 6 rounds and lawnmower repair (gotta fix it for those lawnmower moments). I don't know if I'll ski all 6 rounds, but I'll try.
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Rank: Slalom Addict Groups: Member
Joined: 10/30/2008 Posts: 137 Location: Cypress, Texas
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Good luck this weekend. Being nervous is completely natural. My ski partner is a former regional and national open/M1/M2 podium finisher who has run 2 and 3 at 41 off many times. He hadn't skied since 2006 until he and I started skiing together in April. His first tournament on Memorial Day he said his knees were knocking together so hard that they would probably be bruised. LOL
Shane Hill
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Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 10/8/2007 Posts: 515 Location: Massachusetts
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Good luck this weekend. I get a few butterflies going before I get in the water. Not nearly as many as when I watch my son ski though.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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Thanks guys! I done it enough in years past to know nerves are part of the game, if you're not nervous you don't care, I've scored 0.5s before and I'm sure I'll score them again. I plan to be aggressive though...100% in the squeeze, I want to be wide and fast! Some more thoughts....after I skied yesterday, I noticed my top buckle was broken on my front boot and the set didn't feel like the sets from the past week and a half. Later I drove one of my ski partners who is open rated, he was on cloud 9 from an earlier set and struggled this set, saying he couldn't get speed or get wide. After about 4 or 5 passes we were talking and he told me they had switched props earlier in the day....he felt like he was over powering the boat now. So I switched places and watched a couple of passes, we talked and he told me he felt like there was nothing off the ball, we switched him from b1 to c1 and he said it felt better, but by that time he was tired. My point here is things change in skiing, especially tournament skiing, boats feel different, drivers feel different, sites feel different, the more you can establish a consistent baseline for your skiing the more you can feel little things that you can adjust to. That's why I love this elbow squeeze. It allows you to get to the places you need to get to in the course with enough speed or "carry out" in order to have time to make adjustments...whether it's slowing down your reach or speeding up your reach, or finding your visual targets or whatever it is to make things feel better. I'm not sure if my I had known about the prop when I skied, or if my buckle was fine it would have helped me ski better, but I still had enough space to adjust to the things that were making me feel unsettled. I kept thinking while I was on the water I've got to stay connected longer and drive the ski out more (which you can't do without being connected).
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2007 Posts: 321 Location: Telluride
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It might be better to not know about changes. As you said you just get out there and adjust to it without letting it go to your head. In theory, we should be well within our comfort zone for the majority of our passes so there should be plenty of room for adapting. The irony is that some changes might help you accept when you notice it you start to think about it and beat yourself. All that said, I KNOW that my choice of boardshorts has a significant effect on my skiing so I can't overlook it. At least it is something I have control over
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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The lawnmower was down for a couple of weeks, after repairing it this weekend, I got to spend lots of time on it yesterday (about 4 hours), which led to a lot of waterski thoughts. One of the first thoughts was that I attended 2 clinics, judges and drivers, the most stressed subject in both of those was safety. I don't know if AWSA stresses this for their clinics or not, but it was satisfying to know that the people who taught these 2 clinics addressed it often and in all types of situations. After not being in the boat for tournaments for a few years, it was interesting watching and driving. Observing peoples personalities as they ski or officiate, seeing how they handle the conditions we had to deal with. Seeing different skiing techniques that are successful or unsuccessful. Watching how some people are very calm in the spotlight and others wilt. I recall from my early days skiing slalom tournaments in the early 90s, one of the members of our club, who was a better skier than I was would get very, very nervous skiing in tournaments, he was normally a quiet and calm person but put him on the starting dock at a tournament and he was jabbering the whole time about how nervous he was and how scared he was....I would have to get far away from him or I would catch it as well. Another thing is appreciating the officials who work the tournaments, the judges, the scorers, the drivers and the organizers....especially the good ones. I saw some people who worked very hard at the tournaments only to be criticized by unhappy people (yes, I am guilty of the criticism as well) Which brings me to the driving. After the drivers testing, I ended up driving the last round of the tournament for about 10 skiers. The driver who pulled me my last round ended up being my boat judge.... he never asked me how the pull felt or if I would have like him to do anything different, he just complained that the driving testers were to hard on him and they were perfectionist, and expected him to be perfect. My thinking was that he just wanted to be able to drive tournaments not wanting to be a good driver....I'll address this more on the driver section. I don't want to be the guy who doesn't want to ski behind the "not as good drivers" but the truth is I am that guy....I don't want to do it, but I will. A really good driver can make your day and a bad driver can end it early... sometimes very early. The last thing for now - the blackdog who I borrow the handle from (his name is Zack) was out being free yesterday, (he's always running free when I'm home) He likes to go in the pond next to my house and the swamp that's around the pond, and chase frogs, snakes, bugs and anything that moves. After he gets tired he comes and watches me cut grass and it made me think about a bumper sticker I've seen before that says "I wish I were the person my dog thinks I am". Well Zack is now 12 and he's slowing down, I thought I'd better put him inside in the air conditioner for a while. I know he rather be out with me, but I don't want him to overheat. It just made me start thinking about the things he's done and seen. I was watching a tour stop at our lake from a number of years ago, and there he is chasing the jumpers down the shore. He's ridden in the boat while I've pulled some of the best slalom skiers in the world. He's not the fastest, or the smartest, or the strongest....when he plays fetch, he just runs after whatever is thrown until it stops moving, then veers off in another direction. But he's the best dog in the world and when his time is up, I'm gonna be a basket case....as a matter of fact, I'm getting a little choked up writing this.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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I'm such a goober! I got worked up over some of the driving this weekend at the tournament and I shouldn't have. I will make it a point to get with those people and apologize for being such a baby. I didn't ski the buoys that I hoped I would and wanted to find somewhere to put the blame when I should have accepted that I need to improve my skills. I need to create a safety margin in my skiing to overcome the things that get in the way of performance. And I need to realize and remember that it is a recreational sport. All that being said, part of the reason I write about my skiing is to put pressure on myself and part of the reason is to help others advance their skills. My hope is that if others can advance their skills, they will enjoy it more and tell others of their enjoyment and get more to participate. The pressure that I try to put on myself is to keep me hungry and get this sport figured out at a high level, because I do have a competitive nature. One one hand I just want to be able to ski at a higher level than I'm at, on the other hand there's a side of me that wants to be "Big Dawg" competitive. But I have figured out that it takes a step at a time, that I have to build my foundation and it needs to be a solid, repeatable foundation. So I add the arms/elbows in to get me to certain spots in the course. To me that spot is wide & early for the ball, now I'm trying to bring back some things from my past that were very effective when I used to be wide and early, so that I can accelerate smoothly and quickly with very little downcourse movement. Something to get finishing the turn as close to the ball as I can. One of the things I noticed this weekend are there's more than one way to skin a cat. (does anyone actually skin a cat?) I saw some people ski more buoy to buoy and I saw some people ski an earlier/wider line. I prefer to ski an earlier/wider line for 2 reasons, there's more margin for error and in wind situations it's a stronger cross course line. The people who can run great scores in 0 wind skiing buoy to buoy had scores that were a lot lower in the heavy wind, but the aggressive skiers skied closer to their average.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2007 Posts: 321 Location: Telluride
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blackdog wrote:One of the things I noticed this weekend are there's more than one way to skin a cat. (does anyone actually skin a cat?) I saw some people ski more buoy to buoy and I saw some people ski an earlier/wider line. I prefer to ski an earlier/wider line for 2 reasons, there's more margin for error and in wind situations it's a stronger cross course line. The people who can run great scores in 0 wind skiing buoy to buoy had scores that were a lot lower in the heavy wind, but the aggressive skiers skied closer to their average. I believe that in anything you master you will eventually do more with less. You ultimately operate in a much smaller window of effort with your effort directed precisely at doing only what needs to be done. But the catch is you need the skills to do things in different ways and that means going outside your comfort zone and discovering the edge of the envelope. BD, in your example, the buoy to buoy skiers might have only been able to do it that way. Since conditions were dictating another line they were unable to adapt. On the other hand the high angle skier who can handle the wind may or may not be able to ski buoy to buoy if they find themselves there. This reminds me of Andy Mapple running 35 or 38 without pulling out for the gates. He practiced putting himself in a bad situation just develop those skills rather than simply hoping he would never be in that situation. Another example is that once you can run 28 off, 15 off becomes easier. So I think your approach to creating a greater margin in your skiing is on the money. But I also think that in the long run, once you've covered that ground, you'll wind up doing more with less.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 4/24/2007 Posts: 599 Location: Southern state
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Heading in a different direction for a moment - Chefs trick skiing situation from yesterday with his son reminded me of a thought, body parts through the handle, most particularly the head. I'm trying to not scrap as much at 35 and shorter, there's a side of me that wants to run everything I try but there is a lot of potential danger coming in late, fast and narrow at a buoy, especially if you ride the ski in the middle, where it's suppose to be ridden. That danger is the sudden stopping of the ski, throwing the skier head first into the bridle. This is how arms and worst heads go thru the bridle and how the handful of skiers have been killed in recent years. One of the guys I ski with has duct taped a portion of the bridle to block up a portion of this as some of you may have seen posted recently on other sites. I believe that will deter the head from going thru, but not necessarily the arm. I am trying to make an effort to ski with more space and take less chances than I sometimes do. As the line shortens, there is more of a possibility of this happening, but it can happen at any line where the skier is coming in fast, late and narrow........also hitting a buoy can cause this to happen. So lets be careful out there, ski within your abilities. I don't want to be the guy pulling you when you stick something through the handle and get hurt........that's going to ruin my day...and of course yours.
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Rank: Slalom Addict Groups: Member
Joined: 7/10/2009 Posts: 116 Location: Ohio
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We have been using an Arm Guard all summer.
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Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 10/8/2007 Posts: 515 Location: Massachusetts
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Nice to see someone reads my posts  I am going to order 3 arm guards. One for the trick handle and one each for the slalom handles we use. I should probably get a fourth but at $55 a throw I will just move my handle as needed.
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 Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2007 Posts: 321 Location: Telluride
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Chef23 wrote:Nice to see someone reads my posts  I am going to order 3 arm guards. One for the trick handle and one each for the slalom handles we use. I should probably get a fourth but at $55 a throw I will just move my handle as needed. Do order those arm guards! It's not worth the potential outcome. I've been using mine since they started making them and never had any issues.
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Rank: Slalom Addict Groups: Member
Joined: 7/10/2009 Posts: 116 Location: Ohio
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Actually talked to a guy at the Jr Deve Clinic that put his arm thru his handle.
Chef, your posts are always a good read.
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Rank: 15Off.com Superstar Groups: Member
Joined: 10/8/2007 Posts: 515 Location: Massachusetts
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Deke wrote:Chef23 wrote:Nice to see someone reads my posts  I am going to order 3 arm guards. One for the trick handle and one each for the slalom handles we use. I should probably get a fourth but at $55 a throw I will just move my handle as needed. Do order those arm guards! It's not worth the potential outcome. I've been using mine since they started making them and never had any issues. I've been swapping emails with Thomas Wayne and will be ordering some tomorrow once I get a chance to measure some handles.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/16/2008 Posts: 75 Location: Chippewa Lake
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Chef23 wrote:Nice to see someone reads my posts  I am going to order 3 arm guards. One for the trick handle and one each for the slalom handles we use. I should probably get a fourth but at $55 a throw I will just move my handle as needed. Never seen the arm guards. Can you post a link? I put my arm through the handle when I was learning 540's on the wakeboard. That bruise stayed a long time. Tim
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